German court: RS user responsible for tunneling files

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German court: RS user responsible for tunneling files

Postby Sentry » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:18 pm

http://www.golem.de/news/filesharing-nutzer-des-verschluesselten-netzwerks-retroshare-verurteilt-1211-95845.html

I'm sorry, at the moment there is only this article in German. I'd try to translate it, but I don't know how to exactly translate the law terms.

What it comes down to:
Das Landgericht hatte entschieden, dass "auch die Durchleitung von verschlüsselten Dateien eine Rechtsverletzung darstellt, für die auch der 'nur' durchleitende Nutzer einzustehen hat", so die Kanzlei Rasch.

in English:
The court has decided that "the relaying of encrypted files is also a violation of law, for which even the user who is 'only' relaying is liable, according to law firm Rasch.

(link to their website on this court ruling)

I'd love to hear details about this, but I can only imagine that that user accepted connection to people he didn't know, or at least, shouldn't have trusted, because someone he is connected to denounced him. Any other explanation would be far more threatening.

I've always been paranoid about this, but what it basically means:
Don't connect to people you don't know or trust to a certain degree!
Last edited by Sentry on Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RetroShare user in Germany has to pay 10.000€ for tunnel

Postby apoapo » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:43 pm

Hi,

imo he has to pay court costs as if the value of conflict was 10.000€, that does not mean that he has to pay 10.000€! Just a fraction for the lawyers etc.

As long as you are not very sure about the sum, please edit the post title to something more moderate ;)

Your translation is correct.

cheers!
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Re: RetroShare user in Germany has to pay 10.000€ for tunnel

Postby Sentry » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:11 pm

Hi,

yes, you're correct of course. I realized my mistake a minute after I posted this, but I couldn't edit it because my posts need to be approved first :(

The value of the conflict was 10.000€ and if he has to pay something, it will be determined relative to that.
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Re: German court: RS user responsible for tunneling files

Postby waseihou » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:16 pm

Bad news, very bad. This case could set precedent also for other countries. The worst thing would be if the defendand did not appealed. According to 2000/31/ES (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 031:en:NOT) a proxy is not liable for content being transmitted. Actually it is worded as a "provider of service" (at least in the Czech Republic, I suppoose implementation of the directive in Germany is similar) and now the question is if by running RetroShare someone is in the same position as a provider of internet service (ISP, web server, internet banking). Technically of course yes, but from the legal point it migth be disambiguos. I would still recommend defending using this european directive.

(42) The exemptions from liability established in this Directive cover only cases where the activity of the information society service provider is limited to the technical process of operating and giving access to a communication network over which information made available by third parties is transmitted or temporarily stored, for the sole purpose of making the transmission more efficient; this activity is of a mere technical, automatic and passive nature, which implies that the information society service provider has neither knowledge of nor control over the information which is transmitted or stored.

(43) A service provider can benefit from the exemptions for "mere conduit" and for "caching" when he is in no way involved with the information transmitted; this requires among other things that he does not modify the information that he transmits; this requirement does not cover manipulations of a technical nature which take place in the course of the transmission as they do not alter the integrity of the information contained in the transmission.

(44) A service provider who deliberately collaborates with one of the recipients of his service in order to undertake illegal acts goes beyond the activities of "mere conduit" or "caching" and as a result cannot benefit from the liability exemptions established for these activities.

(45) The limitations of the liability of intermediary service providers established in this Directive do not affect the possibility of injunctions of different kinds; such injunctions can in particular consist of orders by courts or administrative authorities requiring the termination or prevention of any infringement, including the removal of illegal information or the disabling of access to it.

(46) In order to benefit from a limitation of liability, the provider of an information society service, consisting of the storage of information, upon obtaining actual knowledge or awareness of illegal activities has to act expeditiously to remove or to disable access to the information concerned; the removal or disabling of access has to be undertaken in the observance of the principle of freedom of expression and of procedures established for this purpose at national level; this Directive does not affect Member States' possibility of establishing specific requirements which must be fulfilled expeditiously prior to the removal or disabling of information.


I do not understand if he was found guilty, or for how long will that ruling will be in effect. (45) is not technically possible because of encryption, the only option is not to use the network at all...

Still there IS the chance with 2000/31/ES!!!

In the end this has to be ruled out: Is a home user running a network service " information society service provider"?

If he IS, then the guy is innoccent, and even courts in Germany CAN'T do anything about that!
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Re: German court: RS user responsible for tunneling files

Postby Distro » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:35 pm

France also has this (Hadopi). However AFAIK you’re only going to get an email saying you should secure your network (at least the first time…)
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Re: German court: RS user responsible for tunneling files

Postby pumuckl » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:19 pm

How about a nice conspiracy theory? ;)
The GEMA/RIAA/MPAA whatever used the notoriously pro-copyright court in Hamburg to sue one of their own henchmen, aiming to discredit Retroshare. They got to spread a lot of bad publicity and FUD for a few thousand dollars, great bargain! A proper campaign would have been a lot more expensive, so best use the corrupt court system.

And now for something serious:
I'm wondering how the Relay server for "General" Retroshare users works. Am I right that it allows people that are not my friends to use my client as a relay? Doesn't this mean that the web of trust is broken, and people I don't know could use me as relay and would have their files routed through my connection?
If this is the case, why on earth is relay for General on by default (at least it was for me)?
Just wondering, I hope I'm just misunderstanding the option.
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Re: German court: RS user responsible for tunneling files

Postby waseihou » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:38 pm

WHY the user did not appealed? Because with other cases there is theoretical possibility to prevent others from breaking law, but with encrypted system there is no such a possibility. If someone has simple password for his Wifi and someone hack it and use it for illegal act, then it was possible to prevent that by having better password. With retroshare it is not possible, because everything is encrypted.

According to torrentfreak, the court in Hamburg, Germany, has granted injunction against the user. Injunction is not verdict, right or not? Isn't it something before actual trial? And how long does it last?

Anyway this is bad, the guy should have appealed for the sake of the community.
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Re: German court: RS user responsible for tunneling files

Postby Svampen » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:31 am

waseihou wrote:WHY the user did not appealed?


Maybe he was afraid of the ever-rising court expenses he has to pay if he loses?
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Re: German court: RS user responsible for tunneling files

Postby cave » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:17 pm

pumuckl wrote:And now for something serious:
I'm wondering how the Relay server for "General" Retroshare users works. Am I right that it allows people that are not my friends to use my client as a relay? Doesn't this mean that the web of trust is broken, and people I don't know could use me as relay and would have their files routed through my connection?
If this is the case, why on earth is relay for General on by default (at least it was for me)?
Just wondering, I hope I'm just misunderstanding the option.



i am trying to understand it. But it is still not clear to me. and the information what Relay does and what not is also not clear and not easy to find.

Is the Relay Server for [General] used by people i don't know and have not authorized as a friend?



Function of Relay for Friends?
Function of Relay for Friends of Friends?
Function of Relay for General?
and difference in between

Is the connection made for Relaying done only from and to authorized friends in a chain, or directly to the "unknown general ppl" ???

Image
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Re: German court: RS user responsible for tunneling files

Postby electron » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:18 pm

cave wrote: Am I right that it allows people that are not my friends to use my client as a relay? Doesn't this mean that the web of trust is broken, and people I don't know could use me as relay and would have their files routed through my connection?

Yes, the relay allows people which are not your friend to transfer data through your connection.
No, the relay has no impact on your or the relay users security.

Friend A and friend B are connected through relay C.
Relay C only sees a ssl encrypted datastream from A to B and B to A. The relay can not spy or modify the content of this stream.
A can be sure everything which comes out of the ssl encrypted connection is from B, and the other way round.
The relay does not make friends anonymous, they still need to know each others adresses, to tell the relay where to route the data.
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